Chapter Four
The Theory of Reflection
Pratibimbaviidah
In the ordinary worldly course, sound is reflected outwardly
in ether and inwardly in the ear. Touch is reflected outwardly
in air and inwardly in the skin. Form is reflected outwardly in
fire and in a mirror and inwardly in the eye. Taste is reflected
outwardly in water and inwardly in the tongue. Smell is reflected
outwardly in the earth and inwardly in the nose. These
reflections, however, are just like the reflections in a mirror.
They only take place individually. All five re_flections are not
available at once; only one thing is reflected in each. In a mirror,
form is reflected. Touch can not be reflected in a mirror nor
can taste, smell, or sound. A mirror will only reflect form. It is
only in Supreme God Consciousness that you find all five
reflected at once. In fact, although these ·reflections are experienced
individually in all of the sense organs-sight in the eye,
sound in the ear, etc.-these reflections could not even be
observed if consciousness were not there. Awareness is needed
and this is found in consciousness, not in the organs.
The universe, therefore, is reflected in the mirror of consciousness,
not in the organs nor in the five gross elements.
These are merely tattvas and cannot reflect anything. The real
29
KASHMIR SHAMSM "The Secret Supreme"
reflector is consciousness. In consciousness, however, you see
only the reflected thing and not the object that is reflected. That
which is reflected (bimba) is, in fact, sviitantrya. This whole
universe is the reflection of sviitantrya 1 in God Consciousness.
There is no additional class of similar objects existing
outside of this world that He reflects in His nature. The outside
element, that which is reflected, is only sviitantrya. The infinite
variety which is created is only the expansion of sviitantrya.2
You can understand this by taking the example of cause and
effect. When a potter makes a pot, he takes clay and gives form
to that clay with his potter's instruments, such as a stick, a
string, and the potter's wheel. Within the potter's creative
activity, two kinds of causes can be distinguished. There is the
material cause, which in Sanslqit is called upiidiinakiira1Ja.
This is that cause that travels with the effect. It cannot and does
not become separated from the effect. Second, there is the formal
cause, which in Sanskfit is called nimittakiira,:za. The formal
cause does not travel with the effect. The material cause is
the potter's clay and the formal cause is the potter himself and
his stick, string, and wheel. In the ordinary worldly course, the
object which is reflected (bimba) seems to be the cause of the
reflection (pratibimba) because the reflection cannot exist
without that which is reflected. We have seen, however, that all
reflection is really a reflection in God Consciousness. If the
object reflected is really the cause of the reflection, then what
kind of cause is it? Is it the material cause, which travels with
1 SvGtantrya Sakti is one with God Consciousness. There are not two elements,
such as the mirror and the object which is reflected in the mirror.
The reflecteda nd the reflection are one. The mirror,w hich is the absolutely
independent will of God (sviitantrya), is God Con~sciousness.
2 yadvapik aranamk iiicit bimbatven.a..
• Tantriiloka: IIl;SO
30
The Theory of Reflection (Pratibimbaviida/:1)
the effect, or is it the formal cause, which does not travel with
the effect? It cannot be the material cause because that would
mean that there is something outside of God Consciousness
which travels to become part of the effect which is the reflection.
It is our theory in Saivism that nothing can exist outside
of God Consciousness. There cannot, therefore, be any agency
which is separate from God Consciousness and which travels
with the cause because if it is separate from God
Consciousness and therefore from the effect, it would not exist.
If the reflection of some object is existing in the mirror of
God Consciousness, then what is that reflection a reflection of?
We have seen that if the object which is reflected were to
remain outside of God Consciousness, then it would not exist.
There can be nothing, therefore, which is outside to be reflected
in the mirror of God Consciousness. There is only the mirror.
There is no external cause which has gone into the reflection
which is the effect. There is only the mirror of God
Consciousness.
But what then is the cause of this reflection? Sviitantrya is
the mirror. Sviitantrya,. the absolutely independent will of God,
is the cause of this reflection. Unlike ordinary reflection which
we experience in the world wherein an object can be distinguished
as the cause of that reflection, in God Consciousness
only the reflection exists and not anything that is separate and
reflected (bimba). In this causality, sviitantrya is the formal
cause (nimittakiira!Ja), not the material cause (upiidiinakiira!
Ja), of the reflection. It does not travel from the cause
into the effect because, as I have explained, there is no cause
which could be separate from God Consciousness. It is His free
will that He wills and what He wills appears in the: mirror of
His Consciousness. It is simply His will (sviitantrya). In reality,
only the reflection exists and not anything that is reflected.
This universe, therefore, is found in the reflector of God
Consciousness, not through the agency of anything of which it
31
KASHMIR SHAIVISM "The Secret Supreme"
is a reflection (bimba) but through His sviitantrya, where the
universe is contained in seed form. Sviitantrya is the seed of
everything. Everything exists in the mirror of God
Consciousness with sviitantrya as its cause.
The theory of reflection (pratibimbaviida) is meant for
advanced yo gins. This theory teaches them how to be aware in
their daily activities, while talking, while walking, while tasting,
while touching, while hearing, while smelling. While they
are performing all of these various actions, they see that all of
these actions, move in their Supreme Consciousness. Their
vision, their perception, heretofore limited, becomes unlimited.
The mode of their actions becomes absolutely unique. They see
each and every, action in their God Consciousness. They exist
in the state of sadiisiva. Each and every action of their life
becomes glorious. This is the awareness that comes from the
practice of pratibimba.
32
Chapter Five
The Explanation of the Means
Upayas
The meaning of the Sanskfit word upiiya is "means." The
word upiiya in Kashmir Saivism is used to indicate the means
to enter into Universal God Consciousness from individual
consciousness. Our Saivism proclaims that there are three
means for entering into Universal God Consciousness: siimbhavopiiya,
the supreme means; siiktopiiya, the medium means;
and ii,:iavopiiya, the inferior means.
S' iimbhavopiiya
Siimbhavopiiya, the supreme means, functions in miitrikiicakra,
pratyiihiira, and pratibimbaviida. The definition given
in the "Miilin1vijayottaratantram" for siimbhavopiiya is "the
one who preserves thoughtlessness." By preserving thoughtlessness,
that is, riot having thoughts and maintaining the continuity
of that thoughtlessness, and by the grace of the Master,
one enters into that transcendental consciousness where he
finds that this whole universe has come out from sentences and
sentences from words and words from letters and letters from
33
KASHMIR SHAIVISM "The Secret Supreme"
that real "I" which is Parama Siva. Here, one finds that this
whole universe is reflected in his own consciousness and that
it is reflected from within rather than from without.'
Siimbhavopiiya is called icchopiiya because it originates
from icchii sakti and because it is that means which exists in
the state of the meant. In siimbhavopiiya, there are no means to
travel upon. It is the meant. There is nowhere to go. You must
reside only in the meant. The rest is automatic. Here, only the
grace of your Master is necessary. It must be realized, however,
that you yourself must come to this point where you reside
in the meant and this you do by maintaining the continuity of
thoughtlessness. Up to this point, therefore, there is still something
to be done. When you reside only in the meant, it is then
the grace of your Master that carries you. You must reach that
state where only your Master shines for you. This means that
you must merge in your Master's consciousness. In this state,
you do not exist; only your Master exists. Masters select disciples
for this upiiya who are highly developed in awareness.
U:ntil then, they will not be accepted by the Master for this
upiiya. In this upiiya, the Master functions more than does the
disciple.
In our Kashmir Saivism, we say,
, svamuktimatre kasyiipi
yiivadvisvavimocane I
pratibhodeti khadyotaratnatiirendu
siiryavat II
1 akirilciccintakasyaivgau nJ.I).p3.r atibodhatal)I.
jayate ya]:,s amiivesaJ:s, iimbhavo 'siivudiritaJ:I, I
Tantraloka: XIII:159
Miilin1vijayottaratantram; II; V23
/ 34
The Explanation of the Means (Upaya)
"A light bug shines only for himself, jewels
shine not only for themselves but for a few
others also, the stars shine for even more, the
moon shines for still more, and the sun shines
for the whole universe. In the same way, he
who is established in the sambhavopaya state
shines like the midday sun for the whole universe."
As the light bug has sufficient light to show his own body,
there are those yogins that are sufficient only for themselves;
they cannot help anybody else. There are also yo gins, who like
jewels, shine so that their light illumines those that are near.
Those yogins that shine like stars illuminate even more with
their light. Those that shine like the moon illumine still more.
But the Saivaite yogi, established in sambhavopaya, is just like
the sun-he lights the whole universe. •
~iiktopiiya
Siiktopiiya is that upiiya which functions by the means of
energies.· Saktopiiya is called jniinopaya, because it is the
means which originates fromjnana sakti, the energy of knowledge.
Here, the aspirant is more important than .the Master
because he must make himself capable of receiving the
Master's grace, He must work to develop great velocity of
awareness until he reaches the "feet of the Master." By this I
do not mean the Master's physical feet. "Being at the feet of
the Master" means reaching that state where the aspirant is
capable of receiving the grace of the Master. Those who reach
that state are said to be at the feet of the Master.
In siiktopiiya, the yogi does not have to recite mantras or use
his breath to be aware or concentrate on any particular spot. He
has only to see and concentrate on that Supreme Being that is
35
KASHMIR SHAIVISM "The Secret Supreme"
found in two actions without actions. In the "Vijiiana Bhairava
Tantra," this is called centering.2
In siiktopiiya, centering can be practiced between any and all
actions and or thoughts. In centering, the yogz must develop
great velocity of awareness. Great velocity means firmness of
awareness. Awareness must not become loose. If the yogi's
awareness becomes loose, he will be forced out of siiktopiiya
into the lowest upiiya, iil}avopiiya. He will lose the right to
tread on the path of siiktopiiya. In his practice, there must be
continuity in the cycle of his awareness. Only by maintaining
an unbroken chain of awareness will he be able to discover the
reality between any two thoughts or actions. The practice of
centering is meant to function between any two actions or any
two thoughts. He can center between any two thoughts or any
two movements, between one thought and another thought,
between waking and dreaming, between one step and the next
step, between one breath and the next breath. All actions and
all thoughts are the proper framework for the practice of siiktopiiya.
The siiktopiiya yogz must simply insert continuous
awareness in the center of any two actions or thoughts. If his
awareness is faulty and is not unbroken, then he falls and enters
into the lowest upaya, iil}avopaya.
Al}avopiiya
Al}avopaya is concerned with al}u, the individual soul.
Al}avopiiya is that upiiya, which functions by the process of
concentrating on ucciira (breathing), karal}a ( organs of sensa-
2 "madhyarisl amiiSrayet."
Vijfia.DBa hairavaT antra;V erse 61
36
The Explanation of the Means (Upiiya)
tion), dhyiina ( contemplation), and sthiina prakalpanii ( concentrating
on a particular place).
The word ucciira means "breathing," actually concentration
on the breath. Concentration on the breath is the essential element
of the practice of cakrodaya. In practicing cakrodaya you
have to continue breathing deeply and find the point, the center
between the two breaths, the incoming breath and the outgoing
breath. This is the ending point, the beginning point, and
also the center of the span of the breath. In cakrodaya, however,
the beginning and ending points of the span of the breath are
predominant. This is ucciira, concentration on the breath. It can
be either with sound or without sound.
Kara,:za means "organ" and, in particular, it means "sense
organ." Concentrating on kara,:zam eans having and maintaining
one-pointedness through vision or any other sense organ. In
kara,:zat,h e sense of sight is predominant. For example, in concentrating
on kara,:za through the sense of sight, you have to
look at a particular thing. You must go on looking without
blinking your eyes. You should go on seeing that one point
with unbroken awareness. And when that point vanishes, and it
should and will vanish when you enter into that vastness of the
center, that is the end. If you were to practice concentrating on
kara,:zat hrough the sense of hearing, then you would listen to
some sound and continue listening and repeat that sound again
and again. You can also practice by concentrating on some
taste or some particular sensation of touch. In kara,:za,y ou cari
employ all the five organs of sensation, however; with the
senses other than sight, you must remain aware of where the
sensation first arises. This is the way of kara,:ia in ii,:zavopiiya
and, in the long run, this creates one-pointedness.
The word dhyiina means "contemplation." It is anoth~r
mode in ii,:zavopayaD. hyiina is contemplation on some point.
There are different forms of dhyiina. For example, you -Je
practicing dhyiina when you contemplate on the lotus in your
37
KASHMIR SHAMSM "The Secret Supreme"
heart, or on the meaning of some mantra 3 such as the mantra
"so' ham" or the mantra "iliva." This is a_ higher form of
ii,:zavopiiya because it is contemplation without any shape,
without any form. If you were to contemplate on Lord Siva as
having a particular form, a particular shape, that is a lower
form of ii,:zavopiiya. It is contemplation with form.
Therefore, any time in meditation that you have mantra,
then you have dhyiina. And along with dhyiina, you can also
adjust kara,za and ucciira, but not in the beginning.
Sthiina prakalpanii means concentration on some paiticular
place. The higher form of sthiina prakalpanii, which is a practice
in higher ii,:zavopiiya, is that practice where you discover
where each aspect of reality is found in the span of the breath.
You see where the devas are residing, where the lokapiilas are
residing, where is the location of dawn, where is the location
of morning, where is the location of midday, where is the location
of sunset (sandhyii), where is the location of midnight,
where is that location which is the time when the sun moves
toward the northern side, and where is that location which is
the time when the sun moves to the south. These are all sthiina
prakalpanii, and these are the particular points you have to
concentrate on, and discover in the course of your breath.4 The
practice of sthiina prakalpanii is simply to see the vastness of
the universe in one breath.
The second and lower form of sthiina prakalpanii, which is
a practice in lower iinavopiiya, is where you concentrate on dif-
3 All mantras have meaning.
4 In the practice of sthiina praka/panii, there are points in the breath which
you must concentrateo n. In the practiceo f ucciira, therei s no need to concentrate
on each and every point in the passage of the breath. In this practice,
you concentrate on only one point.
38
The Explanation of the Means (Upiiya)
ferent points in the body. These particular places for concentration
are divided into three. One place for concentration is
between the two eyebrows (bhrumadhya). The second place
for concentration is the pit of the throat (ka,:itha kupa). And
the third place of concentration is the heart (hridaya).
All of these processes, ucciira, kara,:ia, dhyiina, and sthiina
prakalpanii, are called the upiiyas of jfva, the means of the
individual, and they exist in ii,:iavopiiya.
A,:iavopiiya is the means found in the world of duality and
is known as bhedopiiya. The means which exists in the world
of mono-duality, in the world where duality and nonduality
exist together, is !siiktopiiya and is called bhediibhedopiiya.
That means which exists in the world of pure monism (abheda)
is !siimbhavopiiyaa nd is called abhedopiiya.
Siimbhavopiiya is also called icchopiiya, as it is the means
which exists in icchii !sakti. The means which exists in jniina
!sakti is !siiktopiiya t\lld is called jniinopiiya. A,:iavopiiya is
called kriyopiiya because it is the metins which is found in
kriyii !sakti.
The difference between ii,:iavopiiya,! siiktopiiya,a nd !siimbhavopiiya
is this. In ii,:iavopiiya, the strength of your awareness
is such that you have to take the support of everything as
an aid to maintaining and strengthening your awareness.
Though you concentrate on the center, you must take the support
of two things for concentrating on that center. In !siiktopiiya,
your awareness is strengthened to the extent that only
one point is needed as a support for your concentration and
that point is the center. In !siiktopiiya,y ou begin with the center
and then become established there. In !siimbhavopiiya,t he
strength of your awareness is such that no support is needed.
You are already residing in the meant. There is nowhere to go,
just reside at your own point. The rest is automatic.
It is important to realize that though there are different
upiiyas, they all lead you to the state of one transcendental
39
KASHMIR SHANISM "The Secret Supreme"
consciousness. The difference in these upiiyas is . that
iil}avopiiya will carry you in a long way, siiktopiiya in a shorter
way, and siimbhavopiiya in the shortest way. Although the
ways are different, the point to be achieved is one.
Anupiiya
Beyond these three upiiyas, siimbhavopiiya, siiktopiiya, and
iil}avopiiya, there is another upiiya. Although it is not actually
an upiiya, yet it is mentioned in Kashmir Saivism. This upiiya
is called anupiiya. The word anupiiya means "no upiiya."
Thoughtlessness is called siimbhavopiiya. One-pointedness is
called siiktopiiya. Concentration on and with the support of
mantra and breathing and all other elements is called
iil}avopiiya. Above all of these is anupiiya. In anupiiya, the
aspirant has only to observe that nothing is to be done. Be as
you are. If you are talking, go on talking. If you are sitting, go
on sitting. Do not do anything, only reside in your being. This
is the nature of anupiiya. Anupiiya is attributed to iinanda sakti
of Siva and is also called iinandopiiya.
40

"Rocks Off"

Oh yeah

I hear you talking when I'm on the street
Your mouth don't move but I can hear you speak

What's the matter with the boy?
He don't come around no more
Is he checking out for sure?
Is he gonna close the door on me?

And I'm always hearing voices on the street
I want to shout, but I can hardly speak

I was making love last night
To a dancer friend of mine
I can't seem to stay in step
'Cause she come ev'ry time that she pirouettes over me

And I only get my rocks off while I'm dreaming
(Only get them off, only get them off, only get them off)
I only get my rocks off while I'm sleeping
(Only get them off, only get them off, only get them off)

I'm zipping through the days at lightning speed
Plug in, flush out and fire the fuckin' feed

Heading for the overload
Splattered on the nasty road
Kick me like you've kicked before
I can't even feel the pain no more

And I only get my rocks off while I'm dreaming
(Only get them off, only get them off, only get them off)
I only get my rocks off while I'm sleeping
(Only get them off, only get them off, only get them off)

Feel so hypnotized, can't describe the scene
It's all mesmerized all that inside me

The sunshine bores the daylights out of me
Chasing shadows moonlight mystery

Heading for the overload
Splattered on the dirty road
Kick me like you've kicked before
I can't even feel the pain no more

And I only get my rocks off while I'm dreaming
(Only get them off, only get them off, only get them off)
I only get my rocks off while I'm sleeping
(Only get them off, only get them off, only get them off)

And I only get my rocks off while I'm dreaming
(Only get them off, only get them off, only get them off)
I only get my rocks off while I'm sleeping
(Only get them off, only get them off, only get them off)

And I only get my rocks off while I'm sleeping
(Only get them off, only get them off, only get them off)
(Only get them off, only get them off, only get them off)

"Little Red Rooster"

I am the little red rooster
Too lazy to crow for day
I am the little red rooster
Too lazy to crow for day

Keep everything in the farm yard upset in every way

The dogs begin to bark and hounds begin to howl
Dogs begin to bark and hounds begin to howl
Watch out strange cat people
Little red rooster's on the prowl

If you see my little red rooster
Please drive him home
If you see my little red rooster
Please drive him home

Ain't had no peace in the farm yard
Since my little red rooster's been gone

President Trump: Thank you very much, everybody. We appreciate you being here. We've had a great meeting. We have a great relationship. The Emir is a fantastic man, respected all over the world, prime minister likewise and, but we have to go the Emir first. Do you agree Mr. Prime Minister?
Mohammed bin Abdulrahman bin Jassim Al Thani: [Laughs] Of course.
Trump: [Laughter] First him. But highly respected people. Great people. And we worked very well together. We have our deal done with Iran and, uh, it should be successful. It goes to a second stage which I think will be actually easier. I didn't want to attack them last week but we had no choice and we did it twice actually.
We were doing it a third time and, uh, we were able to not have to do that. But we have a deal that's a fair deal. It's a good deal. Um, we are not investing any money in Iran, by the way. That rumor got out there yesterday, it was ridiculous. Uh, we have the right to go in someday and do if I want to do something or somebody wants to do something, but, uh, we are not investing any money.
We have no obligation to invest any money in Iran. Uh, working with Qatar and the people of Qatar, uh, was really a pleasure. They are, they were tough, they were strong. You know, they are the closest to Iran physically so with other countries, I noticed I had to travel about 45 minutes to get there. With you, you could walk right across the border.
So you were in a more dangerous position. But I just, I do have to say you, uh, you fought and you helped us and with great bravery. So I just want to compliment you on that and, uh, you'll always be my friend.
Al Thani: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Pres- -- President. It's always a pleasure, uh, seeing you. I wanna thank you for your leadership. And this is very, very important and critical time in the Middle East. And I think as you mentioned, Mr. President, this is a very important deal. There's still a lot of work to be done, but I think, you know, uh, with this momentum, if we continue like that, Mr. President, I think we can achieve and do great in the, in the, in the region.
So it's gonna be very important for the region, very important also for Iran as well. So, uh, we are here to help whenever, you know, um friends ask us to help, we're always here, uh, to help. Of course, also our bilateral relationship, Mr. President, since your historic visit in Doha last year, our, uh, trade partnership is gonna reach $1.2 trillion.
Trump: Right.
Al Thani: And this is huge and we have a lot of great investments that we're very proud of as well in the US and also American companies, uh, investing in Qatar. So overall, you know, um, we are very, very proud and very, uh, happy about this relationship and, you know, I also, uh, once again, thank you very much for your leadership.
Al Thani: I think it was a very critical time, but I think you did, you took the right decision. Thank you.
Trump: Thank you too.
Al Thani: Thank you.
Trump: Uh, Qatar is going to be investing much more than $1 trillion in the United States. We have over 18, it's going to be 19.4 or so when the new figures are out, but, you know, we set a record. There's never been anything like it. No country in history has had that kind of investment. We'll be having, uh, almost 19.1, $19.2 trillion invested in the United States.
The record was three 10 years ago from another country when it was hot, but we have the hottest country in the world right now. But Qatar's been, uh, a great investor. We, we really, uh, rekindled ourselves when I met with you last year, a year ago, probably 13, 13, 14 months. That was a good trip. And, uh --
Al Thani: I think it was May, last May I think.
Trump: Yeah, last May?
Al Thani: Yeah.
Trump: That was, uh, that was a great trip and we had, we established. We- -- we've been friends for a long time. We've known each other for a long time, but Qatar is investing tremendous amounts of money in our country and we appreciate that. Uh, our country's, uh, doing, we're building more factories, AI, we're leading AI by a lot.
We're building automobile factories. We're building more than we've ever built in the history of our country. Never, no country is ever doing, what we're doing right now, no country has ever been able to do, and those factories will be opening over the next year, year and a half. Some are already open very soon.
Uh, the pharmaceutical companies come, companies are coming back. The car companies are coming back from Germany, from Japan, from so many other places, Mexico and Canada. They're all coming back. We lost them foolishly years ago because we had presidents that didn't really know what they were doing. They should have never lost, but they're all coming back in beautiful brand new gleaming factories.
In fact, there are a couple of big old plants. And I said, "Are you going to use that plant?" And they said, "No, we're building brand new. They're knocking it down. Everything's built brand new, beautiful jobs. And, uh, the auto business, we're gonna bring back probably, you know, we lost 57% of our automobile business.
I think we're going to bring, bring it mostly back. And for chips, uh, we were the king of chips, and then it got stolen from us. We were, we went from being the king to having basically no chip business. The CHIPS Act that was done by, uh, Biden, was a disaster. Just a stupid thing to do. You handed billions and billions of dollars to people, and then they didn't build a factory.
But we have a different system. We have a system that if they don't build, they get paid tariffs. They have to pay tariffs of upwards of 200%. They don't have to pay anything for a little while, but if they don't get their plant built, then we can have, we would have, I think, 50% of the chip industry by the time I leave office.
So maybe more. Uh, they're building mostly coming out of Taiwan, but they're building and a lot of them for whatever reason in Arizona. Arizona, Texas. But we'll have 50%, maybe more than that of the chip industry. We're gonna have, uh, we'll be making almost all of our pharmaceuticals, and likewise that, uh, if they don't build, they'll have 150 to 200% tariff to pay.
If they do build, they have no tariff to pay. So our country has never done anything like this. And just, I wanna mention Iran. Uh, we appreciate the relationship we've had over the short period of time with Iran. Uh, the primary thing, it's, you know, we can talk about the Iran deal all day long. We're not investing any money.
We have the right to if we want, but we're not investing any money. We didn't pay for it like Obama did. He paid billions of dollars. He paid 1.7 billion from an airplane all green cash. It was crazy. I watched that. I, I couldn't believe it. But the one thing that's happening that's of note, frankly, the only thing that really matters to me is Iran will never have a nuclear weapon.
And it says it loud and clear. They're not gonna develop it. They're not gonna buy it. They're not going to do anything with it. And if they do, they suffer unbelievable consequences. Uh, not just a little bit like, uh, I won't even tell you the consequences, but the consequences are the ultimate consequences.
And with that being said, I hope we have a very good relationship. But the biggest thing is they will not have a nuclear weapon, and that's the reason I got in, and that's the reason I agreed to sign that we originally had. Marco was, uh, with me, and they originally wrote that we will not develop a nuclear weapon.
I said, "No, no. You're not gonna develop it. You're not going to buy either." So we have, uh, that took another couple of days of time. Everything was, it's, uh, ridiculous, but so we, uh, have, they will not develop, purchase, buy, or any other thing. They're not going to acquire a nuclear weapon. If they do, all hell will rein down on that, and they're not gonna do that.
I, you know. Now you talk about regime change. I never cared about regime change. It's never a part, but I guess you have regime change because you know better than anybody. The first group, they're all dead. The second group, they're dead. A part of the third group is gone, and we're dealing with people that I think are very rational people.
I mean, they were nice to deal with. They were strong people, smart people. I think actually they're smarter than the first and second group, but they're not radicalized, and they're, you know, looking to help their country. So, uh, again, I, I don't believe the regime changed. You know, I've watched regime changes for years that they never work.
It has to just happen. I can tell you this is a country where the Emir is so respected, and the prime minister is so respected by the people, and that's the way a country should run, should run out of respect, not a fear. Uh, as you know, at least 42,000 protestors were killed in Iran, killed. They were protesting.
The wrestler, they had the big event at the White House the other day, the UFC, and they were all talking about he was a great fighter, and he was hung with his two friends because he spoke something about their regime. Uh, it's tough stuff. So, uh, we're very happy that we're involved. We're very, very impressed with Qatar and the way they've handled things, because they were really on the line.
They were in the front line. They were being shot at just about as much as anybody, but you were a lot closer, because you were right there. Literally, I could walk in a minute. Every, every other place I have to take a plane, but I can walk. So they were really on the line, and I just want to comment that, uh, and you should b- -- I just want to really, uh, congratulate you on bravery.
I don't know if you get congratulated for bravery, 'cause bravery is something you either have or you don't, and you never know until you test it. But --
Al Thani: Right.
Trump: -- you were tested.
Al Thani: Yeah.
Trump: And you had great bravery. Thank you very much.
Al Thani: Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you. Really appreciate it.
Question: Are you going to have a separate meeting with President Zelensky, and what would a --
Trump: I had one.
Question: What would a Ukraine deal look like?
Trump: Well, we have one, but, uh, we had a good meeting. I'm meeting him later on today. We had –
Question: [Inaudible]
Trump: -- a very good meeting. Look, Russia should make a deal. Russia's lost tremendous amounts of people, and so has Ukraine. Last month they lost 35,000 soldiers between the two of them. Think of that. This is on a monthly basis, they averaged 25,000 people. Mostly soldiers, young, young, beautiful people. And it's crazy what's going on there.
But, uh, we had a meeting, and we'll see how, I spoke with President Putin on Sunday. And it's sort of the same thing. I mean, they just keep going, fighting, losing soldiers. They lose so many soldiers. This is, not since World War II has anything like this happened. I settled eight wars. This was the one I thought was going to be the easiest settled.
Question: Yeah.
Trump: They just, there's a, a lot of dislike between the two leaders, but, uh, yeah, I'm meeting with him again later on today.
Question: And are you going to have a special focus on Ukraine --
Trump: Well, we're going to look. Now we focused on, we were focused on Iran. It's going to be in the back, in the rearview mirror, but we'll be, I just, look, we have nothing to do with it. We sell weapons to them. We don't even give them. Obama gave them $350 billion worth of we- -- gave, which was crazy. The European Union pays us full price for weapons, but it's not that.
It's that this, it has no impact on us, other than we sell weapons. We're thousands of miles away. But the only reason I'm in, I, I don't like to see 25,000 young people die every month. Every month, 25,000 people die. Young people, they're just starting their life. They go to this front, and they get blown up, and Ukraine is losing a lot of people too.
I mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. So, uh, yeah, I- -- I'm going to do whatever I can.
Note: [Crosstalk]
Question: Mr. President, um, if the Iranian regime continues to kill their own people, will you still move ahead with this deal?
Trump: If they refuse to what with their people?
Question: If they continue to kill their own people, the Iranian regime --
Trump: Well, we're talking, we talk to them about it --
Question: And [Inaudible]
Trump: -- and we see, I will say, the majority of that took place during the first and second regimes, much more so than now. It was, it was --
Question: The Iranians [Inaudible]
Trump: -- it was much, it was much more --
Question: #NAME?
Trump: -- severe, but it's a terrible thing. Yeah, do you have a question?
Question: Yes, Mr. President. Um, what are the, this is for both you and the Emir. What are the economic opportunities?
Trump: Well, I think they'd be good. I mean, I can tell you from our standpoint, we have a lot of opportunities all over the world. But the Emir lives right next door, and I think, you know, they have a lot of oil. Uh, I, I think they'll be good. First they're gonna have to prove themselves, I think, before any of us go in there.
But, uh, I could s- -- I hope they do well. I hope they do well. Look, one thing, whether they do well or poorly, they can't have a nuclear weapon. That's a big thing. If they had a nuclear weapon, they would've blown up Israel, they would've blown up the Middle East, and they probably would've taken a shot at us. We would've gotten them first, I think, but they would have done tremendous damage.
Had we not canceled the Obam- -- Obama nuclear deal, the JCPOA, you would've had them having a nuclear weapon five years ago. You know, that expired. That was a road to a nuclear weapon. It was the dumbest deal I've ever seen, other than NAFTA. NAFTA maybe was even dumber. But just in terms of a bad deal for us, uh, paid them billions and billions of dollars, we paid nothing.
They paid them billions of dollars and it was, it was a disaster. I terminated that on my first term. Had I not terminated, and, and we hit them hard. We terminated it. My second term, we sent in the B2 bombers and we terminated their, I call it the nuclear dust, they're enriched material, right?
Uh, and totally effectively. I remember when CNN, which is fake news, I don't know, you probably use them, but CNN said, "Well, maybe it wasn't that effective." So the Atomic Energy just reported that it was one of the most devastating bombings that they've ever seen. The whole mountain collapsed on top of it. And frankly, to go get a we- -- we're going to go get it, but to go get it is a big deal because, uh, they say only China and us have the equipment where you can even get it. The whole mountain has collapsed on top.
We have cameras on it. You could make the case, why are you even bothering? 'Cause it's not really valuable, it's, you know, it's probably half a million dollars worth. It's not very valuable soil but I think psychologically we want to get it.
Al Thani: Can I just, can I just, uh, can I just answer, you asked that. I think the last couple of months or weeks, I think that wasn't our, we were not interested in, you know, what are the opportunities, economical opportunities in Iran. Our interest, both of us was to, first of all, to find a deal to stop this war.
This is our main, uh, target, but looking at the economy and the opportunity, I'm sure they're going to be huge opportunities and, you know, as long as I said, this is a very important momentum to keep, uh, working like that, to reach let's say the final deal. After that, Iran will be, you know, of course, uh, open for, uh, any kind of investment and I'm sure there are going to be huge opportunities.
But to be honest, you know, we never thought of a, you know, our target, you know, is to trying to find a deal.
Trump: Well, they're going to need something because we blew them up and, you know, you could make the case, I used to make the case that like a week ago I said, and now it's different, we have an agreement, but if you, if we left, we did a great job. If we just left, we did a great job because it'll take them 15, 20 years maybe to rebuild.
And we were going to do a much bigger job if the agreement wasn't signed, we would have taken it to a level. But, and if, if we did that, they would never, ever, I believe, be able to rebuild. Too much.
Question: Mr. President, what are the expectations for Israel? Can this deal survive if Israel attacks Lebanon?
Trump: It can and, you know, I consider that the minor war, Iran's a big one, but we have that little pinprick out there that constantly rears its head, and that's Hezbollah. And you know, I was very responsible for Syria and the man that's running Syria now is a person that I put there, along with President Erdogan and some others.
He's done an amazing job of pulling it together. He's not a boy scout, but he's done an amazing job of pu- -- pulling it together and he is very good with Hezbollah. Does not like them, and I'll tell you what, Israel's fighting Hezbollah too long and too many people are being killed. And you don't have to knock down an apartment house every time you're looking for somebody because there are a lot of people in those apartment houses and they're not all Hezbollah, that I can tell you.
And I suggested to Israel to let Syria take care of Hezbollah. 'Cause to be honest with you, I think they'd do a better job of doing it.
Question: Is it that more important --
Trump: And I didn't like Syria. I didn't like where two hours before we're signing the agreement that there was an attack in Lebanon, in Beirut. It was right in, it wasn't like in the southern side and, you know, it was in Beirut. I did not like that, I let them know that. I didn't like it, not at all, but I think that Syria, you know, he's, he's pulled that country together amazingly quickly.
He's very capable and he's been very good for me. He's protected everything that I've asked for, he's done. And if Israel can't do the job without killing everyone else, he'll do the job, Syria will do the job.
Question: Are you frustrated with Netanyahu, sir?
Trump: No. We had a great relationship. Uh, we're talking about, uh, some end details. I didn't like that he, uh, did an attack based on a, you know, there's a very minor, uh, little thing with some drones that were released and he ends up doing a very, I saw that attack. I saw where that bomb went. Did you see what happened?
That was not, that was a vicious, that was too much. You know, you can do too much also, but we've had a very effective relationship without us. Without the United States, there would be no Israel.
Without me, there would be no Israel, because no other president was willing to do what I did. I've had a great relationship with Bibi, but now Bibi has to, uh, be more responsible with respect to Lebanon. Lebanon used to be a great country. It was a country where you had professors, doctors, lawyers. The great intellect was in Lebanon.
Now it's just, it's terrible. I would say of all countries, they've been treated the worst and they can't defend themselves and they have Hezbollah, which is a problem for them. So, uh, no, I'm not happy with the way Israel has handled themselves with Lebanon and with Hezbollah. They should have been able to do the job faster.
It, it just goes on forever. And when that happens, it throws a negative light on the big deal and that's the deal with Iran. So, so, uh, when you ask me about Bibi, an unbelievable relationship. But Israel would have been blown up a long time ago had I not gotten involved. Two things I did. I terminated the Iran nuclear deal, Barack Hussein, Obama sold out Israel for Iran.
He went to Iran. He sold them out. How anybody can vote for this guy or the party, the Democrats, I call 'em because they're dumb. They're dumb people. That's number one, how anybody can vote for them. And the second was the B-2 bombers just totally determined. So they had the right there, the JC- -- I watched his politicians.
I watched a Senator Reed that nobody ever heard of the other day. Well, this deal is the same as the deal Barack Obama. No. This deal is a wall to a nuclear weapon. His deal was a road to a nuclear weapon. My deal, they can't have a nuclear. They get blown up. If they have a nuclear weapon, they get blown up. In his deal, they were allowed to have a nuclear weapon.
Uh, if, and in all fairness to Bibi, Bibi, I remember very well. BB came to Washington and begged. He begged Obama not to make that deal. And Obama was on the side of Iran, not Israel. And he made the deal. That deal was a disaster. I terminated that deal and if I didn't terminate, and, and was very tough after the termination.
And if I didn't do that, Howard knows better than anybody. If I didn't terminate that deal, I believe that, uh, they would have, Israel wouldn't be here right now. And the second one was what we did with respect to the, uh, nuclear dust, as I call it, right? We blew it up. The mountain collapsed on top, it was, you can't get to it. And had, they were two weeks away from having a nuclear weapon.
And if they had a nuclear weapon, they would have used it on Israel and I hate to say it and probably the rest of the Middle East because they had all those missiles aimed at the Emir, at Saudi Arabia, at UAE, at Kuwait, at Bahrain. I mean, the biggest surprise in this whole thing, I didn't think you guys would, I thought he would aim at Israel, but he didn't aim in Israel much less.
He aimed at your countries. And actually that was a mistake for them because it brought us, these countries, in particular the five countries, it brought us, I mean, he even hit Turkey once. I never understood it. I ne- -- nobody's going to understand it. That's the problem. They're totally irrational people and those people are now gone.
And I think Iran has rational leadership now.
Question: Is that now --
Trump: But you wouldn't have, if it weren't for the United States of America, with me, because Obama was the opposite, uh, Israel would not exist right now, Israel would have been blown off the face of the earth, 100%. And every smart person in Israel knows that. Okay. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you.
Transcript courtesy of Roll Call

"I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then..." - Alice in Wonderland